Shotties!!

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Shotties!!

Post by Jiggs09 on Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:28 pm

Like I mean think about it. To get a Maybe one shot kill with a double barrel you have to be in their face with like perfect accuracy. If you missed your screwed by pretty much any gun. In some Not all I would rather have a m16 than a double barrel. Its strictly a close range weapon. Now as for the others Need a Damge / Range Buff because easily out done by Smg's
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by Slayer_of_1 on Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:55 pm

Hey not to be a douche or anything....but do you think you could make your siggy a *bit* smaller? like 75% of what it is now? Thanks....and I support too, so long as they don't get TOO much range....
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by mrfarhan on Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:23 pm

Haha Slayer =D friendly-neighbourhood forum mod =D

I think the Double Barrel is fine. So is M3S90 and M590. M4S90 is OP when used by a bunnyhopper but anything further than 3 body lengths should be dealt with an SMG.

Double Barrel should be left as it is.
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by Slayer_of_1 on Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:47 pm

Double barrel is perfect for hit-n-run attacks. It's great.
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by (MI6) lolpierandom on Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:53 pm

Double barrel should be a secondary. It's a waste of a primary slot. However, if we nerfed it's damage by like 1 a pellet, and made it a secondary...




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Re: Shotties!!

Post by THATSghetto on Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:56 pm

I disagree. I'm an SMG user and I can guess that almost all the small maps will be 1hko SG dominated if they receive a buff. DB is already a 1hko at close range and it can be great when used effectively. I see some people in kilo running around with 3 DBs and they can easily pull off 3.0KD+ in JF OMA. There's nothing wrong with the DB as it is, but if more SGs became 1hko... we'd run into some game balance issues.
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by Gotron228 on Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:56 pm

Shotguns are perfectly fine the way they are the only reason most people see most Sg's as underpowered weapons are the people who use the M4 Super 90 to much or they can't aim that well. If you can aim ALL your shots with a shotgun its a perfectly fine 2 Hit Kill.

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Re: Shotties!!

Post by (MI6) lolpierandom on Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:44 pm

Gotron228 wrote:Shotguns are perfectly fine the way they are the only reason most people see most Sg's as underpowered weapons are the people who use the M4 Super 90 to much or they can't aim that well. If you can aim ALL your shots with a shotgun its a perfectly fine 2 Hit Kill.

Shotties and MGs being underpowered were one of the ONLY things I initially agreed on with Haz when he came out of the blue.(I admit I was a bit of a trollolololol)

We shouldn't have to aim ALL our shots perfectly. That's dumb. When we're point blank with a shotty, we should have a EASY kill, not have trouble outcompeting SMG users. All guns are supposed to have a specilization.

Shotties: EXTREME close range(it fails at that)
SMG: Best at close-mid range (somehow beats out shotties at ANY range, since even a MAC-10 is better than the M4 Super 90, which is easily the best shotty)
AR's: Accurate tap fire(most of these are a bit TOO versatile, since the G36 is better than any SMG beside's the UMP/TMP family)
MG's: Heavy support/spray fire at close/mid range
Snipers:Long range support(Work better at close range then shotties silent)


The problem is, I would much rather have a Desert Eagle Gold than a SPAS-12 Stock Gold at close range, considering it goes in my secondary slot, has same/better fire rate, same/better spread, more portability, just a tad bit less ammo, and reloads 3x faster. When the PISTOLS are better than a primary, you know you have a problem.


Why can I shoot someone point blank with my shotty, and they won't get 1 hit killed? ALL shotties should be 1 hit kill at -2 meters, which is where I consider it EXTREME close range.
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by Slayer_of_1 on Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:09 pm

lolpierandom wrote:

When the PISTOLS are better than a primary, you know you have a problem.


Isn't this the truth. Razz
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by Gotron228 on Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:39 am

Slayer_of_1 wrote:
lolpierandom wrote:

When the PISTOLS are better than a primary, you know you have a problem.


Isn't this the truth. Razz

My Usp Se could take out your M16A3, does that make it Op?

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Re: Shotties!!

Post by mrfarhan on Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:18 am

xD

I can't really think of a way to make it such that shotguns are useful, but not overpowered.
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by (MI6) lolpierandom on Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:59 am

Gotron228 wrote:
Slayer_of_1 wrote:
lolpierandom wrote:

When the PISTOLS are better than a primary, you know you have a problem.


Isn't this the truth. Razz

My Usp Se could take out your M16A3, does that make it Op?


That is a matter of skill, not complete gun statistics.

A Desert Eagle Gold, A PISTOL, has better statistics than a primary. The M16 is at least better than some pistols...
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by mrfarhan on Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:23 am

Define 'better'.

High damage, low rate of fire
or
low damage, high rate of fire.

My definition of better is efficiency Very Happy how fast a certain weapon kills, taking into account my lousy aim and no register issues.
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by (MI6) lolpierandom on Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:25 pm

mrfarhan wrote:Define 'better'.

High damage, low rate of fire
or
low damage, high rate of fire.

My definition of better is efficiency Very Happy how fast a certain weapon kills, taking into account my lousy aim and no register issues.

Desert Eagle Gold is more efficient than ANY shotty besides the M590 Mariners CQB(only shotty that can 1 hit kill, and even with that, a VERY SMALL percentage), and the M4 Super 90, for obvious reasons.
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by mrfarhan on Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:07 pm

A double barrel would kill your DE Gold. Razz
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by (MI6) lolpierandom on Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:11 pm

mrfarhan wrote:A double barrel would kill your DE Gold. Razz

Or I could bunny hop pasts it's initial volley, then pop two shots and get a kill. As a pistols-master, I take slight offense to that :3
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by Slayer_of_1 on Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:17 pm

I was toying around with an idea I had earlier.


While I don't usually think of Halo Combat Evolved (the first one) when thinking of CA, Halo actually has shotties pretty balanced.

  • Halo's shotgun is a 1HK at point blank range, and anything past it experiencing a LOT of damage dropoff.
  • The ROF is perfect for a 1HK shotgun at close range.
  • Pellets actually hit at pretty long ranges, as in real life, but the damage is minimal at said "longer ranges".


The Shotgun in Halo is then balanced in the sense that it:

  • Excels in its own area (point blank range), and while able to be used at longer ranges, it's effectiveness is far less than other weapons for their specialized range.
  • It has a Low ROF to compensate for 1HK ability at close range.


I believe that all pump-action shotguns should be based off of the one in Halo, with only the Double Barrel as an exception.

Now, the way semi-automatic shotguns will operate is based off of the Halo Shotgun platform as well. Semi-autos in CA will relate to the Shotgun in Halo 1, with the sense that:

  • Pellets will hit at pretty far ranges, but will incur little to no damage.
  • Semi's will have a higher ROF than the shotgun in Halo, but as a balancing factor, will be a 2HK at point-blank range.


Also, the Semi's in CA will be redesigned to have a slightly looser (greater) spread than Pump-actions, as to encourage more long range use with pump-actions, and conversely encourage shorter-range use with semi-auto shotguns.

Thoughts? Comments? Any need for clarification?
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by Subtellite on Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:37 am

m4s90: should has less RoF but also less spread (the difference is huge now since the nerfing) because even in CQC (what shotties are made for) u need 3(sometimes 4) hits to kille an enemy

DB: is fine as it is now (a hit and run shotty)

M590: should become a OHK shotty again compared to the RoF
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by mrfarhan on Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:51 am

OHK M590 is too much.

The M590 CQB is a great shotgun, so is the M3S90.

Shotguns are hard to rebalance without giving too much/little advantage over other weapons Crying or Very sad
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by (MI6) lolpierandom on Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:25 pm

mrfarhan wrote:OHK M590 is too much.

The M590 CQB is a great shotgun, so is the M3S90.

Shotguns are hard to rebalance without giving too much/little advantage over other weapons Crying or Very sad

A knife range OHK is NOT too much. That isn't too much advantage, considering if you stepped back 10 feet, it would take a good 4-5 shots to kill you.

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Re: Shotties!!

Post by mrfarhan on Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:23 pm

Slayer, it's a good system but there are many shotties in the game.

Any ideas on how can we change the stats of the shotguns to make for diversity without making them underpowered? ._.

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Re: Shotties!!

Post by Slayer_of_1 on Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:44 pm

No clue. Sad
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by mrfarhan on Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:46 pm

This is probably the same problem Nexon faces when dealing with shotties.
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by Zirrick on Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:55 pm

um, latency/hacks NOW!

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Re: Shotties!!

Post by mrfarhan on Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:04 am

What about latency?

There's nothing left to it but typing out the 'appeal'.

As for hacks, I can't reply my own posts >_<
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by Zirrick on Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:44 am

lol I know, just saying. Theres other stuff at priority right now.

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Re: Shotties!!

Post by Subtellite on Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:34 am

M4S90 isnt overpowered

now its a weak 3HK weapon even at close range D:<
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by mrfarhan on Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:39 am

Eh?

It's a 2HK Surprised

Apart from the M4S90, I think the Double Barrel, M3S90 and even the R870 can be lethal if used correctly.
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Re: Shotties!!

Post by Zirrick on Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:55 am

They should just be a minimum of a 2HK within 12 meters.

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Re: Shotties!!

Post by mrfarhan on Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:09 am

but how do we add variety to the shotgun class without some shotguns being underpowered?

The only stats we can tweak are portability, spread and rate of fire, since spread and damage is fixed.
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