Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

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Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Hazarath on Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:01 am

http://forum.nexon.net/CombatArms/forums/1/5993422/ShowThread.aspx

This is EXACTLY what we should be doing in order to stop hackers.

We need to inform Kalika on the going-ons of the hacking community so that Nexon can better patch hacks. They can't patch what they don't know right?

And you guys realize hackers post up public hacks FOR DOWNLOAD, meaning we can just link Nexon to these downloads, have Nexon download the public hacks, and the VIP hacks with the links we provide, then they can model their next anti-cheat around it.

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by mrfarhan on Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:09 am

Nexon doesn't do the hack patching. It's AhnLab's job.

Since AhnLab is a different company from Nexon, we really can't do much about it.
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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Hazarath on Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:33 am

Replace all instances of Nexon with AhnLab Surprised

We should get Nexon to have Ahnlab come out with a sort of development blog as well.

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Zirrick on Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:13 am

Can't do that haz. They won't, nexon's PR isn't of Ahnlabs concern. Really what we can push through is the punishment handed out by nexon.

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Gotron228 on Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:41 pm

Zirrick wrote:Can't do that haz. They won't, nexon's PR isn't of Ahnlabs concern. Really what we can push through is the punishment handed out by nexon.

How can nexon really do more punishment to the people they ban exactly? That is the question we should look at to answer BEFORE we jump to major punishments.

I was thinking maybe an Ip Ban would suffice but when you think of the thousands who are wrongfully banned it stops them from being able to make another account to continue playing the game. AND there is also the fact that an Ip Changer or a Static Ip address would hinder an Ip Ban feature worthless and useless.

I honestly don't know how Nexon can stop the hacks. Maybe once their contract is finished with Ahnlab we should push for them to change their Hack Detection system. They DO have a partnership with valve after-all so maybe they can use Valves VAC.

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Zirrick on Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:10 pm

go look at hardware ban thread.

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Slayer_of_1 on Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:18 pm

I already made an account on MPGH and I'm poking around.

I've discovered how Nexon's reporting system works, in it's entirety.

I'm looking into how they code these things. Hackshield is ridiculously easy to bypass, with a few lines of code altered.

But yes. Search around on these hacking sites. Find out how these people work. Discover how they do these things, and if we choose hacking as our next course of action, we can use the information we gather to help us on our mission.
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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by mrfarhan on Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:21 pm

Actually, hardware bans would reduce hackers by a lot but even hackers bring Nexon money.

Like Jarfer, I did some scouting in the hacking websites because back then I had Elite and I wanted to know how to spot chammers/modders.

Somehow I get the feeling that some of these hackers are respectable players in CA's community. We just don't know they hack because they're good at computer programming at stuff.

1 sentence that I once read in a certain website was: You can't attach rags to the regular L9 to make it look like the Arctic Wolf. Just fork out 30 bucks and buy it perm.

Hackers are willing to spend NX.

And it is probably because of this Nexon doesn't want to do hardware bans. Hackers actually bring them profit.

I think something along the lines of the WOGL Anti-cheat is better. A program that searches for illegal files in your PC and gets you banned on the WOGL website. [I think thats how it works]

Hardware bans are cool, but unnecessary.
But invasive anticheats is definitely the solution to cutting down on the number of hackers.
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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Zirrick on Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:43 pm

wait what?

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by mrfarhan on Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:58 pm

What wut Surprised
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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Zirrick on Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:38 pm

why no hardware ban?
your reasoning contradicts itself...
don't hit the hacker with a hardware ban...because they spend money....but excess hackers cause potential customers to leave this game because there are hackers....so they lose customers? wut?

how is hacking respectable, in any game?
White hat's wouldn't need to exist if the black hat didn't.

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Hazarath on Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:52 pm

The poll for our Course of Action had hacking as our 2nd most voted on objective.

After we fix all forms of lag, hacking will be our next target PROBABLY.

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by mrfarhan on Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:25 pm

I think you misinterpreted what I said.

Nexon won't do hardware bans because they know that some high-ranked 'respectable' people keep alts to hack on. They lose money that way.

Excess hackers don't make people leave the game. Lag does.


@hazarath All that we can do about lag is to petition for a Devt. Blog.
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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Hazarath on Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:28 pm

Let us wait and see after we get more... Tech-savvy members before we decide it's IMPOSSIBLE for us to do anything else with lag-reduction. Maybe it's IMPROBABLE with our current situation, but I doubt anything is impossible.

I have a friend that might be able to help in these matters. I'll try to contact him and see what he has to say...

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Zirrick on Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:30 am

I understand the programming languages, all I need is to know how to open them.

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by mrfarhan on Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:13 am

Open what?
I know how to open .rez files n_n
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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by (MI6) lolpierandom on Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:28 am

Slayer_of_1 wrote:I already made an account on MPGH and I'm poking around.

I've discovered how Nexon's reporting system works, in it's entirety.

I'm looking into how they code these things. Hackshield is ridiculously easy to bypass, with a few lines of code altered.

But yes. Search around on these hacking sites. Find out how these people work. Discover how they do these things, and if we choose hacking as our next course of action, we can use the information we gather to help us on our mission.

I used to hack on a side account... 2 years ago. As a result, I'm fairly knowledgeable in pub hacks. You shoulda seen TGS(thisgamesux), they were like MPGH on steroids.
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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by mrfarhan on Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:09 am

This is why Nexon won't do hardware bans.
You never know who keeps a side account for hacking.

Everyone's a suspect. All you have to do is go on another PC and download some [risk viruses and keyloggers] and start hacking away. Or they might even do it on the same PC they use for gaming -.-

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Zirrick on Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:55 pm

mrfarhan, I guess....but really hardware bans affect the hackers them selves. They have to test out their products in game....and so if they are hardware banned each time. They would have to BUY new hardware after every ban. Idk. its either that or switch to server-side anti cheats.

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by mrfarhan on Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:00 am

I know what you mean.

It's a good idea, I'm all for an invasive anticheat because it would cut down on the number of hackers by ALOT.

But how is the new system going to work?

Is it going to collect info from your PC that matches the info from their database and if they find any illegal programs, they will give you a warning of up to two times before they eventually permaban your PC or what?

This idea will only work if Nexon can make this programs compatible with all the programs in your PC. A hardware ban is srs bsns mate, if the system is glitchy, lots of people will get wrongfully banned.
Also, what about the people playing in Lan shops, people who buy used computers, etc. People also use illegal programs to open files in the CA folder to check for stuff like mid-month supply drops. These people might be at risk of getting their account and PC banned.


It is most likely that this whole hardware ban system will be done by machines. Like, no human effort needed, since all it does it collect info, send back to servers, compare it to their hacking definitions, find any hacks and then ban your hardware.

Eventually people will find a way to bypass this system and spread the knowledge around.
If the whole hacker prevention and banning system is done by computers/machines, they can't detect these things.

I think a better idea would be to do something like this.

Make an anti-cheat client.
Make people sign in to it before starting CA. [username and pass]
Anticheat will look for illegal programs in your PC at the time you are playing.
This means that even if you download hacks/rez mods/stuff to alter CA's files when you are not playing CA, you are safe.
Play CA and sign out.
Upon signing out, the scanning of your PC will stop and info will be sent to the Nexon servers or something.
This info will be in the form of a 'file' which is then compared to their hacking definitions. If they find any illegal programs, the username signed in will get blacklisted.

Something like CBL.

There will be no 3 strike rule.

You get your name on the black list forever,
and you receive a 30 day suspension.
After serving your suspension, your name will still be on the Black list.

The second time they find hacks in your PC while you are playing CA, you get permabanned.
Disputes will be handled by Nexon staff, and the current User Abuse Report website function will still be available.

So basically it will be a two tier 'hackshield'.
One for auto banning and blacklisting accounts.
One for manual reports.

Difference between this and the hardware ban is that this ban is account-based.
Meaning, if you play in any PC, and they find hacks in that PC when you're playing, your account will be banned.
But the PC is still safe.

This way, you can't use hacks while playing, since it will get you banned.
But if you decide to turn over a new leaf, you still can.

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by mrfarhan on Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:50 am

I've downloaded rez mod stuff once to snoop around the CA files, see what's inside. Surprised
Thought it was okay to, but I didn't know how to use it.
I herd Tekky also used some program to look at the files in your CA folder.

It would be useful for people like us,
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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Zirrick on Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:14 am

The anti-cheat should work with both a database & collect player behavior. Behavior along the lines of length of kill-streak, time between kills, ping, hardware information. Bans handed out by computers should stay how they are now, time & IP. But if that person is banned on more than one occasion for hacking, then a GM should observe that computer personally.

I get that hardware bans are serious business, and so it should be. They should be handled by the GMs that analyze evidence, if they do at all. The GM's would have to have EXTREMELY CONCLUSIVE evidence that would be open to the public, something in the form of a first person video (something that currently only GM's have access to) of the player in question. That way that person can be defended by others.

The blacklist system should apply to the account that has the most hours logged in-game & the highest rank. That way it'd just draw that person into the public eye. When on this blacklist the computer with the most logged hours will be then logged using the info from both the processors & hard drives. Then if that computer is seen hacking on more than 3 counts, then the banhammer comes crashing down.

Side-Note: Theres a rumor that when you see a random ACOG scope floating around the spawn area, thats a GM ghosting your game.

You do understand, running a scan would cripple some players right?
and script emulation is a pain, just too intensive/long.

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by mrfarhan on Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:30 am

No, random scope floating is a glitch Surprised

And the 9th player on your team, who's a Recruit, it's a glitch.

._.

It's not a huge scan, you should've tried scrimspot when it was around. It didn't decrease my fps by much. ><

But okay, let's say a GM needs extremely conclusive evidence to ban your hardware serial number, then what about the low ranked hackers?
There are too many of them to keep track off. The only way I see a hardware ban happening is with a two layer 'hackshield'.

Layer 1 scans for hacks in the PC that starts when you log in, and stops when you log out, and then they ban you.

Layer 2 : GMs roaming around, GMs reviewing disputes sent in by tickets.

Slight disadvantage would be a tiny fps drop.

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Hazarath on Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:54 pm

In the game I came from, GMs were able to "TV" players.

Perhaps that's what they should do?

Moreover, we need to focus on getting Nexon to hire vGMs to moderate the game later on when we focus on hacking prevention.

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by mrfarhan on Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:11 pm

Dirtnap suggested something similar to vGMs in the forums.

I won't let anyone tv me, unless I get to tv him back.

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Hazarath on Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:18 pm

vGMs TV by gaining direct access to powers invested to them by Nexon.

They have legal TV that requires 0 download from you.

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by mrfarhan on Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:40 pm

TV done by a GM is invasion of privacy.

A program scanning for hacks in my PC, I couldn't care less.

But I will never let any stranger who lives 8000 miles from me TV me whenever they like.
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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Dark_Archon1 on Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:48 pm

mrfarhan wrote:I think you misinterpreted what I said.

Nexon won't do hardware bans because they know that some high-ranked 'respectable' people keep alts to hack on. They lose money that way.

Excess hackers don't make people leave the game. Lag does.


@hazarath All that we can do about lag is to petition for a Devt. Blog.

This is true... Nexon cares about it's cash flow ALOT, thats why I think they too are tackling the lag problem first before the hacker problem. I avoid hackers all together by playing Fireteam. If anything lag would definitely make me quit CA if it isn't fixed in the near future.

hackers in CA will always exist, the game is too easy for people to break it seems.

Some food for thought, the second most googled phrase involving combat arms is "Combat Arms Hacks".

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Re: Infiltration and Intelligence Gathering

Post by Zirrick on Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:34 pm

farhan, I know that, but we can try.

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