Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

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Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by mrfarhan on Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:55 pm

My Sniper Rebalance Solution

I'm not all for a radical change in the Sniper Rifle Class, but I do have some
ideas of my own on balancing the Sniper Rifle Class.

Unlike Hazarath, I used the DSR-1 and the M200 series as my own benchmarks. Reason
being the L96A1 was introduced way back, even before Waverider was introduced.
Back then, the highest magnification on the scope is the L9.
As more SASRs were introduced, scope magnification was increased.
So I had to pick a more current benchmark for my rebalance suggestions.

My definition of balance: Give each weapon a slight boost to make it better than at what it does best. If you don't really get what I mean, read on.

Bolt-Action sniper rifles
By right, after firing a shot from a bolt-action sniper rifle, the bolt has to be
pulled back. Quickswitching is the action of switching to your knife and then back
to your sniper rifle to skip this 'bolting' process.

Suggestion: Make the bolting process mandatory. Even if you switch to your knife
and then back to your sniper rifle to reset the spread, the bolting process will
still take place before you can fire your shot.


M107CQ
Some players quickswitch with the M107. Therefore I suggest the draw
speed of the M107 be slightly lower.

M107 is commonly used as a camping sniper rifle. So how about this to make the
M107 an even better camping sniper rifle - When the player holding the M107 just stops moving, the M107 will perform at its original accuracy and damage. If the player does not
move his feet for about 2 seconds, the accuracy will increase by 2 points and the
damage drop-off will be reduced by 95%.

So this means that the M107 will still deal about the same damage as it would to
a medium vest player standing in just next to him.
Examples of possible applications: Killing that shoulder peeker on Snow Valley's
Alpha hill and that rock glitcher in Kill Creek.

M107 Air Force
Similar to the above but instead of 95% less damage drop-off, the M107AF will have
40 more damage per shot, making it virtually untankable.


M24A3
Currently, the M24A3 is a OHK to the chest of a medium vester up till mid-range.
M24 Woodland performs similarly in-game to the M24A3. Basically M24A3 is just a
reskin of the M24 Woodland.

I propose the M24 Woodland having a really weak OHK to the chest of a medium vest
even at close range. To balance things out, M24 Woodland will have a scope buff.
The standard M24 will still have the L96A1 scope magnification while the
M24 woodland gets a higher magnification scope with less sway.

So basically the M24 will be a 2hk, M24A3 will remain the same and the M24 Woodland
will receive a scope buff but slightly lower damage.


SR-25
One of the noob-friendliest sniper rifle in CA. In the hands of a professional
sniper, it is very deadly. There is 1 problem though. The SR-25 is a GP sniper
rifle that is a strong 2 hit kill. At maps such as Kill Creek, it might even be
a 3hk due to the damage drop-off.

My idea is that 1 in every 2 shots will have 5 points higher damage. So the first
shot will deal the normal damage on your enemy but the *second shot will deal
5 more dps. [* does not matter if the second shot hits the enemy]

Applications: The second shot that deals more damage will increase the chances of
collateral damage especially if you were to take down multiple enemies rushing at
you.


MSG-90
In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with this sniper rifle. It's not underpowered,
just underused.


PSG-1
The scope on the PSG-1 makes it unique so I think that should stay. The PSG-1
is a OHK on lightvesters. A possible buff would be to make it a 50/50 chance
of getting a OHK on the chest of the medium vest up to a range of 40 units on the
ACOG scale. At ranges further than that, it would deal the same damage as it always has.

I decided that this is an appropriate buff, seeing that the scope on the PSG-1
only magnifies as much as an ACOG. Hence, the PSG-1 should dominate in medium range.
It will still be a challenge to hit concealed enemies due to the lower scope
magnification.


L96A1
The sweet spot of the L96 is to your right. Aim on the enemy's left hand to
guarantee a hit. This makes the L96A1 a challenge to use when dealing with shoulder
peekers. I think the accuracy should stay because it is fine as it is. I mean, if
all sniper rifles were given a huge buff then wow, fail.

So I propose the settling time/spread of the L96A1 be shorter. I'm not sure exactly
how much shorter, but a high settling time on a low accuracy, OHK tankable sniper
rifle isn't very fair. So damage remains the same, accuracy remains the same,
damage drop-off remains the same but the spread and settling time is lowered.


M200 & M200 Ghillie
I find the scope rather interesting to use. It's not difficult to master and
imo, the M200 is a really great sniper rifle. Some people seem to disagree though.

My proposal: The tip of the tiny arrow be coloured a darker shade of red, or even
black to highlight the actual centre of the reticle. Otherwise, this sniper rifle
is fine and is not horribly outclassed.


DSR-1 Series [except for DSR-1 Tactical]
Whats wrong with this line of sniper rifles? Almost nothing.

Maybe increase the scope sway on the DSR-1 GP variant a little to make it more challenging to use against concealed enemies? But the accuracy should still remain as it is. This will not
allow for easy headshots all the time.


TPG-1 Series
I have not tried the TPG-1 Pro yet but I have had the TPG-1 for 1 whole day.
It is overpowered compared to other sniper rifles and maybe the only downside of
this sniper rifle is it's horrible damage drop off. It still has near perfect
accuracy which makes it a pain in the a$$ in close and medium ranges.
TPG-1 is like a heavier L9 with almost M24 accuracy.

My proposal: This is a very drastic change but ... I think the TPG-1 should have
the M200 scope. This will make the sniper rifle less newb-friendly as you will
have to get used to the scope Smile So basically TPG-1 is an M200 with more damage
drop-off, slightly higher accuracy, rate of fire and less damage.


I did not suggest anything for the Dragunov Series since I don't have much
experience with it but ideas are welcome.
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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by Zelmarked on Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:37 pm

Yeah I have no idea why they don't make it mandatory. In Bad Company 2 if you change your weapon after shooting a bolt action and then go back to it, you still have to do the "bolting" animation. It seems simple enough for them to do. Neutral
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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by Hazarath on Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:43 pm

So let me get this straight:

You feel the new snipers are actually balanced, but all the old ones weren't(meaning UP)?

Because a benchmark that you use to compare with other snipers to see how powerful it is balanced...

Hmmm... Not so sure about every sniper being on par with these new snipers....

Can you provide me some reasoning as to WHY DSR(DSR > M200, so M200 isn't really your benchmark <.<) is a reasonable benchmark? L9 being released a long time ago is not really a good reason. That's like saying it's fine we have something better at doing what UMP or LAW does at no rank req(which is essentially what DSR series is. Better L9 w/o the rank req.). :/

If you make EVERY weapon this good, then doesn't that make CA take one step closer towards MW2? I like the challenge of using the guns in this game. I don't believe we should buff everything else just because a better gun came out.

Now the one reason I can think of is that you feel snipers up to DSR/M200 series are UP at what they do compared to how well say a SMG excels at CQC or an AR excels at mid-range. Is this accurate?

EDIT: I have to say, your idea for balancing M24 is kind of bad ._. It's currently underused BECAUSE it's bolt action with 2 hit kill. Keeping M24 the same way it is doesn't sound very.... pleasing. For semi-autos in general, they're underdogs. Bolt actions outperform them D:

Main reasons: RoF advantage is nullified the majority of the time due to the fact bolt action users take cover right after a shot. Doesn't matter how fast you fire when your opponent only appears long enough for you to fire one shot. It may be better at killing people out in the open, but it's not GOOD ENOUGH at that for you to take a semi over a bolt action. The 2 situations are: Fighting an enemy popping in and out of cover&someone out in the open.

Improved accuracy is meaningless now with DSR.

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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by mrfarhan on Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:41 pm

@Hazarath The newer sniper rifles are better than the older sniper rifles to a medium-sized extent.

If M24s were to be OHK, L9 would be outclassed. The M24's trademark is its 100 accuracy and high rate of fire.

I used DSR-1 and M200 as benchmarks because they are 'current'.
The M200 because it is one of the best high magnification scope sniper rifles in game. DSR-1 is the best low magnification scope in game.

CA is adding more modern guns to its Arsenal. To bring down the stats of new high-end sniper rifles such that it performs on par with sniper rifles released in 1980s is unfair.

If the M107 buffs were implemented, it would beat the DSR-1 at really long range.
L9 would be one of the best sniper rifles in quickscoping.
M24 would be a "WTF" headshot machine even across Kill Creek.
SR-25 will be a rusher's worse nightmare.
PSG-1 will see justice, as a mid-range sniper rifle.
DSR-1 has more scope sway, making it less newb-friendly at long ranges but still suitable for mid-small maps.

What these buffs do is add 'diversity'. Each sniper rifle is better than another at something.

I think this is the way to go, instead of nerfing the stats of these weapons drastically so that older sniper rifles will be on the same level as these new sniper rifles.

@Zelmarked Yes, finally someone who understands Razz
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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by Hazarath on Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:24 am

Err, M24 would only OHK to chest in my suggestion at a very limited range, if that's still too much, then we can make compromises so that L9 is still not "outclassed". i.e. Make it so that M24 is a 60/40 chance of OHK?

So now realism plays a part in combat arms?

And you still didn't give your opinion on bolt action > semi auto, therefore semi auto class either needs a buff big enough to contend with bolt actions, or bolt actions need a nerf Surprised

Srsly though, M24 being GOOD IN ONE MAP OUT OF THE ENTIRE GAME does not make it worth buying or even consider balanced compared to other guns D:

Semi autos are underused in game, why is that? Is it because of one shot one kill motto? Then WHERE do semi-autos beat OHK bolt actions to make them worth buying? Are those areas where semi autos beat OHKs make them worth buying? Evidently, in game, semi autos are NEVER seen in a competitive game, like bulldog server. Maybe it's because of a lack of advantages on semi auto's part that OHKs are preferred over them almost 100% of the time? IF the problem is that too many advantages will cause semi autos to be "noob friendly snipers equivalent to the M416 CQB", then we switch around several stats that makes it harder to use. i.e. More recoil on all of them to make up for buffs we come up with, etc.

M107CQ is able to compete with M24 in Kill Creek. It has 8 lower accuracy. Something is wrong with that. I don't think M24 is as good as you think if a high zoom OHK can do just as well as M24 in kill creek WITHOUT having to aim at head.


Btw, imo Dragunov should be OHK to chest only just like M24A3, but increase recoil slightly, lower than M107CQ enough so that the extra aim needed to aim at chest is worth it.

MSG-90 may be a bit overlooked... I vote more accuracy. :<

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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by mrfarhan on Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:15 pm

Realism has always played a part in CA. You don't see fairies, unicorns, dragons or other sci-fi stuff. Except for Zombies.

Semi-Auto sniper rifles have really high accuracy. To balance this, damage is lower.
I think the reason you don't see semi-auto sniper rifles being used in CA is because of the 1 shot 1 kill/1 bullet 1 life motto. And a lot of snipers have the mindset that Power>everything else.

I used the SR25 back when I was a newbie in 2009. It worked well in the grunt servers but as you get into better servers, you realise that players don't just sit behind sandbags and snipe. They run around.

To land the second shot in a moving target is tough. Especially with the no register/hitbox issue. It's do-able but getting the first bullet in your target is much easier. So my friend introduced me to the L96A1. I camped on Waverider's tower and got many kills off it.

But semi-autos have the rate of fire to kill multiple enemies quick, especially if they bunch up. tbh, I find the semi-autos really useful in clan war where you need high accuracy to pop heads and the high rate of fire as a support weapon.

So in short, back then it was semi-autos against newbies and bolt-action against pros.
But now they are introducing OHK, 100 accuracy bolt-action sniper rifles which are newb-friendly. The introduction of the DSR-1 sucked the life out of M24 and the semi-auto sniper rifles.

M24
If you compare the L9 and the M24, you can see that the higher the damage dealt by the SR, the lower its accuracy. M24 is known for her 100 accuracy while the L9 was known for her reliable OHK.
To make the M24 a OHK just like the L9, even if it's a weak OHK would be hypocritical. You hate the DSR-1 but you're suggesting a 'DSR-1 with higher portability and damage drop-off' a.k.a a one hit kill M24 Question

So like I said, M24A3 should be a strong OHK on a medium vester up to a distance of 40 units on the ACOG rangefinder.

There was a thread about the M24 Woodland being a lame rank unlock for a 1LT5. The author proposed a higher magnification scope on the M24 Woodland.
http://forum.nexon.net/CombatArms/forums/thread/5612883.aspx
Here's the thread ^

A higher magnification on the M24 Woodland will not only be useful in Kill Creek, it will be useful for killing those pesky campers in Two Towers, Snow Valley, Shortfuse, Rattlesnake and etc.

L96A1
This sniper rifle is outclassed by the DSR-1 and M200 at long ranges due to it's low accuracy. But the accuracy has never changed in the past. I think all this buzz about L9's accuracy making it obsolete is blah.

What I find horrible is that one shot to Deckland's foot leaves him with 2hp. Weak OHK on a lightvest? Horrible.

L9 is the king of SR-only matches in small maps.
And it should stay that way. Spread on the L9 should be decreased and it's damage be slightly buffed. Buff L9's dps to 125hp?

M107
When playing in Kill Creek, there are two things to look out for. OPKers are tiny body parts popping up over the ledge. When tiny body parts pop up, you need to be able to shoot it with maximum accuracy.

So you have two choices, M24 Woodland or M107. M24 Woodland is a rare weapon. So you won't be seeing much of these in Kill Creek.

The M107 is a really heavy weapon, and it should stay that way. Players should be encouraged to camp with it. Hence the boost in stats.

DSR-1 and TPG-1
too newb-friendly. nuff said.


Conclusion
Yes, some of these boosts will make the sniper rifles easier to use but only in specific areas. They don't buff the sniper rifles to a point that everything is newb-friendly.
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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by Hazarath on Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:58 pm

mrfarhan wrote:Realism has always played a part in CA. You don't see fairies, unicorns, dragons or other sci-fi stuff. Except for Zombies.
You kind of just contradicted yourself and admitted CA doesn't have realism... In CA, realism is merely a second priority.

Semi-Auto sniper rifles have really high accuracy. To balance this, damage is lower.
I think the reason you don't see semi-auto sniper rifles being used in CA is because of the 1 shot 1 kill/1 bullet 1 life motto. And a lot of snipers have the mindset that Power>everything else.

I used the SR25 back when I was a newbie in 2009. It worked well in the grunt servers but as you get into better servers, you realise that players don't just sit behind sandbags and snipe. They run around.

To land the second shot in a moving target is tough. Especially with the no register/hitbox issue. It's do-able but getting the first bullet in your target is much easier. So my friend introduced me to the L96A1. I camped on Waverider's tower and got many kills off it.

So you admit semi autos are at a disadvantage? The higher RoF is nullified by snipers that can hide under cover, pop up, try to hit you, pop back down. The entire process only allows you a minute chance to hit the sniper ONCE, NOT TWICE, JUST ONCE, when he pops up. That's the big problem here. Bolt action OHK users

But semi-autos have the rate of fire to kill multiple enemies quick, especially if they bunch up. tbh, I find the semi-autos really useful in clan war where you need high accuracy to pop heads and the high rate of fire as a support weapon.

TPG-1 DSR-1. Their accuracy therefore makes semi autos pretty useless. And semi autos only have 1-2 more acc. than M200 or M107. Why would you choose semi autos over those that have: Higher magnification(M107's high mag. evidently makes aiming easier due to zoomed in with a bigger target, therefore accuracy matters is made up for by the high mag. If anything, any ohk bolt action that's not a L96A1 has accuracy on par with semi autos due to the higher magnification scopes.)

So in short, back then it was semi-autos against newbies and bolt-action against pros.
But now they are introducing OHK, 100 accuracy bolt-action sniper rifles which are newb-friendly. The introduction of the DSR-1 sucked the life out of M24 and the semi-auto sniper rifles.

M24
If you compare the L9 and the M24, you can see that the higher the damage dealt by the SR, the lower its accuracy. M24 is known for her 100 accuracy while the L9 was known for her reliable OHK.
To make the M24 a OHK just like the L9, even if it's a weak OHK would be hypocritical. You hate the DSR-1 but you're suggesting a 'DSR-1 with higher portability and damage drop-off' a.k.a a one hit kill M24 Question

Wtf? DSR-1 is 90/10 OHK chance, whereas the M24 buff I'M suggesting would be 50/50 chance. Big difference... Get your facts right please D:

So like I said, M24A3 should be a strong OHK on a medium vester up to a distance of 40 units on the ACOG rangefinder.

Ew. Only to the chest, agreed? imo, M24A3 should be 75/25 chance of OHK to chest to make things fair ._.

There was a thread about the M24 Woodland being a lame rank unlock for a 1LT5. The author proposed a higher magnification scope on the M24 Woodland.
http://forum.nexon.net/CombatArms/forums/thread/5612883.aspx
Here's the thread ^

I have nothing against this Very Happy

A higher magnification on the M24 Woodland will not only be useful in Kill Creek, it will be useful for killing those pesky campers in Two Towers, Snow Valley, Shortfuse, Rattlesnake and etc.

L96A1
This sniper rifle is outclassed by the DSR-1 and M200 at long ranges due to it's low accuracy. But the accuracy has never changed in the past. I think all this buzz about L9's accuracy making it obsolete is blah.

What I find horrible is that one shot to Deckland's foot leaves him with 2hp. Weak OHK on a lightvest? Horrible.

L9 is the king of SR-only matches in small maps.
And it should stay that way. Spread on the L9 should be decreased and it's damage be slightly buffed. Buff L9's dps to 125hp?

Imagine this: 2hk SMGs w/ M4 RoF came out alongside with 3hk SMGs w/ minigun RoF. This kept going on for a year, and then people eventually gave in, and called UMP, TMP, PP19, MP5 UP because the "new standard" was 3hk w/ 90 RoF or 2hk w/ around 70-80 RoF.

This is what's happening to the L96A1.

Balance> Realism, haven't you heard?

M107
When playing in Kill Creek, there are two things to look out for. OPKers are tiny body parts popping up over the ledge. When tiny body parts pop up, you need to be able to shoot it with maximum accuracy.

So you have two choices, M24 Woodland or M107. M24 Woodland is a rare weapon. So you won't be seeing much of these in Kill Creek.

The M107 is a really heavy weapon, and it should stay that way. Players should be encouraged to camp with it. Hence the boost in stats.

So now it's fine? And it has a low zoom too, making it effective for camping sniping in EVERY MAP, not just KC.

DSR-1 and TPG-1
too newb-friendly. nuff said.


Conclusion
Yes, some of these boosts will make the sniper rifles easier to use but only in specific areas. They don't buff the sniper rifles to a point that everything is newb-friendly.

I guess it's really a choice between if: You want every sniper in the game to be just as effective as a L96A1 or a DSR-1.Are you saying L96A1 is UP for a sniper due to how real life/in game accuracy has such massive gaps?

Let me explain something to you: At what range does 90 accuracy suddenly become noticeable, suddenly able to be deemed "inaccurate for a sniper"? Pretty far right? Maybe 60 meters, I'unno. Now look at how big maps are. NOW look at at what range do most fights take place at. Now let's look at real life battles. Look at how "big" real life "maps" are and how large snipers' range in general are.

So let's say for a second, maybe in CA, maps are scaled down in size, therefore sniper range effectiveness is also scaled down. Does this makes sense to you? This not only applies to snipers, but shotguns and assault rifles too. irl, shotguns are up to 50m effectiveness. In game, it's 10-15m at most. That's scaled down 5x. Take this scale and apply it to irl Saiga-20, M3 Super 90, etc. and in game versions. Are the scales similar? Perhaps there is a relationship here. irl, G36 is 800m effectiveness. In game, it's around 90 I think? That's 10x roughly? Are other ARs roughly 10x less in range compared to their irl counterparts? Now let's apply this to sniper rifles.

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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by mrfarhan on Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:17 am

Keyword is diversity.

It's not Balance>Realism all the time. Realism plays an important role in CA.

I can name examples, but na. I don't feel like it.

So Hazzy, what you want is every sniper rifle in CA's stats be adjusted such that it can perform well in every single range without being outclassed by newer sniper rifle additions?

It's not about wanting every sniper rifle in-game to be as good as the L9 or the DSR-1. It's about giving sniper rifles boosts so that they have their own 'specialised' area.

Giving each sniper rifle an advantage at something would be like giving a tiny incentive for using it. Different situations, different needs.

If all the sniper rifles behave similarly, L9 gets an accuracy buff, M24 gets a damage buff and DSR-1 gets a damage nerf, there will be no diversity.

No single sniper rifle can outperform another in any specific situation, since all of them are brought down to the same level.

Why didn't anyone complain about the SR-25/MSG-90 outclassing the M24? Higher rate of fire, similar accuracy unless used at extremely long ranges, higher magazine size.

At the end of the day, it's all preference. But you can't really have a preference if..
1. 1 Sniper Rifle triumphs over all others in all combat situations.
2. All Sniper Rifles perform similarly.

Sure you will find more people using underused Sniper Rifles, but if they all perform similarly, they might as well be re-skins.

Regarding semi-autos, you didn't take into account that these snipers play in All Permitted games and not SR-only games.
The high rate of fire and accuracy can be used to take down multiple targets quickly, if used correctly. Shoulderpeekers, flag runners, killing SMG rushers from a long distance etc.

In short, it's not totally outclassed. The semi-auto class is less glamourous and underused but can still be effective.

P.S I don't get your SMG analogy.
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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by Hazarath on Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:30 am

mrfarhan wrote:Keyword is diversity.

It's not Balance>Realism all the time. Realism plays an important role in CA.

I can name examples, but na. I don't feel like it.

I'm not at all saying realism isn't important, just that it's secondary compared to balance.
So Hazzy, what you want is every sniper rifle in CA's stats be adjusted such that it can perform well in every single range without being outclassed by newer sniper rifle additions?
? Every sniper in my ideal world would be good at something and bad at something. That something can be many things, but to make it simple, let's just say it's range.

It's not about wanting every sniper rifle in-game to be as good as the L9 or the DSR-1. It's about giving sniper rifles boosts so that they have their own 'specialised' area.
Yes, every sniper needs their own place in the game...

Giving each sniper rifle an advantage at something would be like giving a tiny incentive for using it. Different situations, different needs.

If all the sniper rifles behave similarly, L9 gets an accuracy buff, M24 gets a damage buff and DSR-1 gets a damage nerf, there will be no diversity.
Where the hell did you get this idea? 0.0 For DSR, I'm going to make it a "setup" sniper rifle, where you have to setup the sniper before you can snipe with it. You have to get the bipod out and stuff. Whole process takes 4 seconds, that's 4 seconds the enemy has to kill you. If you want to leave the setup position, it takes 4 seconds again to pack away the bipod.

No single sniper rifle can outperform another in any specific situation, since all of them are brought down to the same level.

Why didn't anyone complain about the SR-25/MSG-90 outclassing the M24? Higher rate of fire, similar accuracy unless used at extremely long ranges, higher magazine size.

At the end of the day, it's all preference. But you can't really have a preference if..
1. 1 Sniper Rifle triumphs over all others in all combat situations.
2. All Sniper Rifles perform similarly.

Sure you will find more people using underused Sniper Rifles, but if they all perform similarly, they might as well be re-skins.

Regarding semi-autos, you didn't take into account that these snipers play in All Permitted games and not SR-only games.
The high rate of fire and accuracy can be used to take down multiple targets quickly, if used correctly. Shoulderpeekers, flag runners, killing SMG rushers from a long distance etc.

In short, it's not totally outclassed. The semi-auto class is less glamourous and underused but can still be effective.
Can means you have to try harder just to do as well as a bolt action user. To quote RaptorJesus, semi-autos are the AA-12 of snipers. They serve a different purpose, but still not very good at its supposed specialized area compared to how good bolt actions are at their specialized area. Much like how AA-12 is a mid-range shotgun, but still fails at mid range, whereas M590 CQB Mariners is a CQC shotgun, and excels at CQC more than AA-12 excels at mid-range. Do you see how this fits in with semi autos? They're not outclassed in the sense bolt actions are simply better, but how bolt actions are better at what they do than how good semi autos are at their specialized area.

P.S I don't get your SMG analogy.
You're letting today's standards make you not see how the oldie snipers are outclassed.


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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by mrfarhan on Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:20 am

About the Shotguns part, yea I get it. But I don't see how semi-autos can be buffed such that it becomes useful.

I don't agree with the DSR-1 setting up thing.

Your DSR-1 suggestion is slightly similar to my M107 suggestion lol.
But for the wrong reasons.
4 seconds set-up time makes the DSR-1 useless at cqc.
M200 and M107 both have to be set-up too, just to be fair.

A higher scope sway would make the DSR-1 less newb-friendly. So why not?
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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by Hazarath on Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:08 pm

mrfarhan wrote:About the Shotguns part, yea I get it. But I don't see how semi-autos can be buffed such that it becomes useful.

I don't agree with the DSR-1 setting up thing.

Your DSR-1 suggestion is slightly similar to my M107 suggestion lol.
But for the wrong reasons.
4 seconds set-up time makes the DSR-1 useless at cqc.
M200 and M107 both have to be set-up too, just to be fair.

A higher scope sway would make the DSR-1 less newb-friendly. So why not?

That's the entire point, to eliminate any chance of it being able to do well in CQC. Why would it be good at that? I'll even give it 100 acc. 100 power just so the 4 second setup and put away time is worth it while making it so that if the DSR user misses, he dies.

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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by mrfarhan on Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:18 pm

Or give it a higher spread, and scope sway. And reduce the spread on the L96A1,

Straightforward solution.
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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by Hazarath on Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:47 pm

mrfarhan wrote:Or give it a higher spread, and scope sway. And reduce the spread on the L96A1,

Straightforward solution.
While BOTH our suggestions work...
A straightforward solution oftentimes is the easy way out. And the easy way out usually comes at a price. Proof: Cheating on tests. Easy way out, but repercussions will be dealt with as an adult when you need to know how to do math and basic debate skills.

The problem with your straightforward solution is that it eliminates variety. By making 100 accuracy 100 power snipers like DSR-1, but with the disadvantage of having to set up the bipod, you create a new type of sniping: Extreme camping snipers.

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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by Hazarath on Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:38 pm

I thought you might want to read this. We need a different function for M24: It should STILL be the most accurate sniper in the game, with QUADRUPLE SCOPE: ACOG zoom, normal sniper zoom, 4-5X zoom(M107CQ zoom), and even higher than M107CQ zoom.
[quote user="CursedSeal7"]

same gos for semis, even if you hit with teh first shot, they can run before you kill withs 2nd shot (M110 SASS) or even the 3rd (SR25) basicly, having to hit someone twice is alot harder then having to hit them once, the main difference between semi and bolt is that semi has better accuracy to make up for the lack of power, and having high fire rate to make up for it as well, while bolts are just pretty accurate, but only really need to be accurate enough to hit a chest( which isnt hard at all) for a1 hit kill,

semis are alot harder to use mainly because you have to hit 2-3 times, which gives them time to back up and get cover,id rather use a semi, and go for some headshots, i believe this because i once thought semis were noob, till i got so bored of my bolts that i nearly stoped sniping, i suggest using both semis and bolts so that you have a gun for all types of situations, i myself use M110 for the harder shots that need more accuracy like headshots, and use my M-200 Ghillie for easier 1hk shots that dont take alot of accuracy to land.

[/quote]
That's a nice idea actually.

Too bad I've refrained from using OHK bolt actions besides M24A3 because 93-90 accuracy+3X zoom or 4X, I forget scope causes it to be so exaggerated due to the bigger target when zoomed in, that there rarely is a situation where you need a semi auto's 95 accuracy.... Perhaps semi autos could use an accuracy buff? Say M39 EMR, which is highest in semi auto accuracy, 98, should be 100? And the weakest ones like PSG-1, which is a mid-ranged sniper, doesn't really need accuracy, because if you do need acc. on it, you're not using the PSG-1 the way it was meant to be used, which is similar to how M14s are used. On SR25, perhaps it can be 97? DSR-1 and TPG-1 still unfortunately remove the need for semi-auto accuracy though :/ Perhaps this is the reason why they need a nerf.

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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by mrfarhan on Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:26 am

You see, there's a vicious cycle in weapon balancing.

Top notch, high end sniper rifles released, with in-game performance that surpass almost, if not all other sniper rifles.

But if you look at the stats, you will see that they perform way above what their stats say.

Nexon lets the guns perform above their stats for a while, get people to buy these guns, and a few months down the road they nerf the actual performance according to the stats.

By suggesting things like setting up the DSR-1 before you can actually shoot it makes it really horrible when they eventually get nerfed.

M24 Regular is fine tbh. M24A3 should have a tiny bit more damage so that it is a more consistent OHK. M24 Woodland should have a higher magnification scope. To balance this, lower the damage to between M24 and M24A3. Even if this makes the M24A3 slightly overaccurate/overpowered, this will encourage people to experiment with different guns in different situations.

As for semi-autos, I completely agree. Landing 2 shots on a moving target is difficult if you don't have the skills. What Nexon can do to make semi-autos more popular without outclassing the M24 series is to make the accuracy close to 100 and lowering the spread/recoil, so that landing 2 shots on a moving target would be much easier.

I'm tired of seeing people using the TPG-1 and Subsonic as crutch weapons. Sniping is too easy nowadays. Point, Click, B00m.
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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by Hazarath on Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:59 am

mrfarhan wrote:
By suggesting things like setting up the DSR-1 before you can actually shoot it makes it really horrible when they eventually get nerfed.

M24 Regular is fine tbh. M24A3 should have a tiny bit more damage so that it is a more consistent OHK. M24 Woodland should have a higher magnification scope. To balance this, lower the damage to between M24 and M24A3. Even if this makes the M24A3 slightly overaccurate/overpowered, this will encourage people to experiment with different guns in different situations.

Glad we came to a conclusion on semi autos being most accurate in this game.

How is M24 regular fine, but M24A3, an IMPROVEMENT OF IT, not fine?

I have a NEW IDEA that might please both of us:
Both guns will have same chance of OHK: 50/50.
HOWEVER, M24A3 will be 50/50 OHK up to 130 meters, while M24 regular will be 50/50 OHK up to 60 meters.

Another thing is that it will have the quadruple scope I mentioned.

For DSR-1, TPG-1, Let's actually buff their accuracy. Both should be 100 accuracy, 100 power. The difference is in setup time. DSR-1 will have 3 second setup time, but 5 second put away time. Also has slightly more range. while TPG-1 has 4 seconds setup, 4 seconds put away. Also 1 less portability. The NX variants will simply have more range, more frequent OHKs, slightly faster put away and setup times, but NEVER BETTER THAN 3 SECOND SETUP AND 3 SECOND PUTAWAY.

What do you think?

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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by mrfarhan on Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:54 am

M24 should not > L96A1 in terms of power. M24A3 should have a 75/25 up to a range of 130 units, while M24 will be a 50/50 OHK up to 60 units on medium vest.

So what would be the chance of OHK on a lightvest?

I think Quadruple Scope is a bit of a hassle. Triple should be fine. 1 M14SE scope, 1 L96A1 scope, 1 M107-ish scope.

As for the DSR-1 and TPG-1, yeah, good idea.
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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by Hazarath on Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:12 am

mrfarhan wrote:M24 should not > L96A1 in terms of power. M24A3 should have a 75/25 up to a range of 130 units, while M24 will be a 50/50 OHK up to 60 units on medium vest.

So what would be the chance of OHK on a lightvest?

I think Quadruple Scope is a bit of a hassle. Triple should be fine. 1 M14SE scope, 1 L96A1 scope, 1 M107-ish scope.

As for the DSR-1 and TPG-1, yeah, good idea.
Triple? A'ight.

But if people start complaining, quad. scope, doubt that would happen though.

But it's going to be a lot weaker than L9 in power ._.
75/25 is a bit too high. 60/40?

Chance of OHK on light vest will be much higher, like 75/25. It will ALWAYS OHK to the back/nuts.

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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by mrfarhan on Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:38 am

nice thinking =D
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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by Hazarath on Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:29 pm

mrfarhan wrote:nice thinking =D
So we're at an agreement?

If so, post Sniper Rifle Rebalancing System Idea v.3

Include this whole thread with it to show we actually thought and debated about this. I'm VERY GLAD to have an intelligent conversation for once instead of flames.

Also say this to help them understand our concept(include it as a tl;dr if you wish):

Currently, there are 3 types of sniping: semi auto, bolt action camping+hard-scoping, bolt action rushing+quick/drag scoping.

We're going to add 2 more: Head-picking sniping(M24 series buff, esp. the triple scope suggestion reinforces picking heads at ease. If M107CQ 2nd zoom is not high enough, and players complain, add the quadruple scope, but that probably won't happen.)

Extremist camping(DSR-1/TPG-1 setup/setaway time + 100 acc. 100 power buff)

While improving semi autos to be near 100 acc. some WILL be 100 accuracy if they're lacking in other statistics.

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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by mrfarhan on Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:12 pm

Wait, but what about the other minor buffs I suggested?
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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by Hazarath on Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:56 pm

mrfarhan wrote:Wait, but what about the other minor buffs I suggested?
Include everything. Both what you said and I said. Imma let you take over for posting this on CA forums. I got bigger fish to fry.

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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by mrfarhan on Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:54 pm

Alright, I'll do it later on tonight. I'm going out soon 8D

Good luck with your fish.
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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by mrfarhan on Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:53 pm

Thread is up on the Nexon forums.

Feel free to support/bump.
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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by Hazarath on Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:23 pm

We need to redo it.

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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by Hazarath on Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:09 pm

Got an idea for M107CQ series:
Make them 96 accuracy, BUT also force them to have a setup time, 3 second setup, 3 draw away. During draw away time and setup time, player will have the same portability as when completely setup. So if sniper is 10 portability, player will have 10 portability speed even during setup and draw away.

Should players with "bipod" snipers need to stand completely still during draw away time or can they move? During setup time, I think it's 100% needed for the setup time to have to be a stationary phase rather than a mobile one. Meaning you can't move during the setup. Should snipers be able to move during draw away? Keep in mind they have OHK damage and higher-than-OHK-bolt-actions accuracy.

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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by mrfarhan on Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:25 pm

Hmm. If M107 has a set-up and put in your backpack away time, then it will be severely underpowered. 100 damage and 96 accuracy compared to 100 damage, 100 accuracy.

3 second set-up and 3 second draw time is actually quite long..

Your enemy will be gone before you even finish setting up :l

This might promote the use of G36E :S
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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by Hazarath on Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:04 pm

Bleh. Okay, what kind of compromise should we aim for then? Btw, remember not to take this idea more seriously over the current issues we're mainly working on Surprised

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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by mrfarhan on Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:32 am

I'm aware that there are more pressing issues. It'd be great if you started topics in this forum and the rest can chip in some stuff.

And create tiny threads asking for opinions on these topics in the Nexon forums =D
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Re: Sniper Rifles Rebalanced V1.0

Post by MMZephyr on Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:35 pm

The TPG is way OP, just my opinion. It rarely gets tanked, and has a huge rof.

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