Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

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Semi auto UP or OHK bolt actions OP?

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Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Hazarath on Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:44 pm

Before you answer this question, keep in mind that if we make everything on par with a DSR-1, sniping will be so easy in this game, it wouldn't even be funny. It'd be another MW2.

If we come to the conclusion semi autos are UP: All semis will receive a buff that makes them perform on par with at least a L9.

If we decide bolt actions are kinda OP, then we'll have to decide a proper nerf for them that makes it so that semi autos are more useful in certain areas, but also less useful in a near equivalent number of areas. It will be a very delicate process....


Last edited by Hazarath on Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:41 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by (MI6) lolpierandom on Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:00 pm

Semi-Autos are underpowered Haz. You know it yourself, that was one of the first things that I agreed on with you, if I remember correctly.

The only thing that the semi autos outclass are the GP M24, and it's clan gun version, the SPR or w/e.

The L96, and all other bolt actions have been beating it out since day one.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Zirrick on Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:52 pm

My thoughts are the following.

Semi's are used to accurately pick targets off at a distance; this is emphasized because they don't scope out after shots allowing the user to scan the horizon, searching for additional hidden targets. But because of their 2HK nature they are forced into taking longer times on a single target. Although they sport high portability, they are CA's camping sniper.

Bolt-Actions are used to pick off targets and move on, so they're given the ability to 1HK their target. This makes them suitable for close-medium ranges. Many users have taken this to an extreme and used them as a 1-bullet shotgun, which is admirable in all respects. Most of them sported low accuracy in comparison to the Semi's, so they weren't as effective at extreme distances. Therefore they are this games close-medium range SR's.

The main point I have is that the bolt-actions were never to accurate to begin with, making it easier for a semi-user at range to pick him off between shots. But with the release of 1HK bolt-actions with accuracy that rivals the upper echelons of the semi-class, semi's no longer have the chance to kill a bolt-action user if they miss because the DSR-1/TPG-1 can quickly fire an accurate-1HK. Not to mention the bolt-action user can take cover/dodge the semi's shots and simply stand still for a split-second and kill the semi-user with little effort. The use of high-magnification scopes on 1HK makes the previously stated process easier, the low-magnification scopes characteristic of Semi's tip the scales even further.

The problem lies here, to place an accurate shot the bolt-action user needs only to stand still for a split second to fire an accurate shot. Semi-users are forced to "hardscope" therefore need to stand still.

The L96a1/L115a2/M-200 are guns that properly display how the 1HK bolt-action sniper should function, the ability to 1HK with accuracy that leaves a margin of error for a semi-user to strike them.

The M39/M110/SR-25 are the pin-point semi's because of their ability to pick off heads with ease.

The Dragunov/PSG-1 are the SR's that are support snipers, they have enough damage to effectively kill any slightly weakened enemy, but not to pick-off heads.

The DSR-1/TPG-1 represent Nexon's poor attempt at a hybrid of both types: the ability to quickly & accurately place a 1HK, while still maintaining mobility. But because they are bolt-actions they still have the ability to stay still for a split second to accurately pick-off targets.

The M107/M24/SPR series are correctly done hybrids between the bolt-action/semi distinction. The M107 isn't accurate, but is given a high-magnification scope & because of its immense weight forces the user to limited mobility much like that of a semi. The M24 series give the ability to quickly fire-off 100% accurate shots, but lack the sheer power that has become characteristic of the bolt-action SRs.

All of this thought was put into my initial idea. I have not revised it since its inception, nor have I thought about it up until now.

Set-up times are unneeded for SR's, because of the limited amount of maps that have the range to support true sniping. They would be too specialized for anyone to consider using it. And even if they were to be given an extreme magnification, it would be unusable because of the "Fog" used in-game (to lessen the hardware hit it would take to actively render everything you could see) would prevent them from seeing their target.

Its true my original idea doesn't stand-up to anything long-term, we will just have to rally everyones support again if they create a gun to evade it. This is why I think the FFCA was a good idea, to provide easy organization to correct the game. Remeber this if you skip to the end, If everything is overpowered in a way, then it balances itself.

End Rant.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Zirrick on Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:03 pm

Sorry for the wall of text, but I have one more thing to say. If jumping was added to the stamina bar it would aid semi's because they wouldn't have to aim at a bouncing idiot. To ensure that SG's can use jumping as an effective tool (and so that I can obtain easy kills off of silly SMG-users, simply equate the stamina hit to the portability of the gun.

Side-Note: If I had it my way I'd redesign the way all guns are used, allowing for specialization. Even though I admire CQC-quickscoping, I do find it irritating when their a SR trumps a SG at 15 meters. Remind me to try and balance out the SG's.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by mrfarhan on Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:39 pm

Semi-automatics are underpowered. Their recoil is too high to successfully land two shots on a moving target.

Since semi-autos are 2hk, you have to crouch at one spot longer than you would with a bolt-action. This leaves you vulnerable.

The original concept of sniper rifles was the higher the damage, the lower the accuracy. Something along these lines. Take for example the L9 and M24. Damage is substituted by accuracy and a slight change in rate of fire.
Semi-autos have lower damage than bolt-actions but have higher rate of fire and accuracy than all sniper rifles except for M24.

That was before Nexon introduced OHK sniper rifles with near-perfect accuracy. This screwed up the whole formula. Examples of such sniper rifles: M107, M200, DSR, TPG.
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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Gotron228 on Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:17 am

I think that Semi Auto-Matics are perfectly fine really when you think about it if you go head to head with a Bolt Action user and they miss you can easily tap fire 2 straight shots due to Semi-autos having little to no Recoil.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Hazarath on Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:44 am

I added a poll, vote guys!

And for those of you that say semi autos had an accuracy advantage over bolt actions since the beginning, I seriously refute that statement: M200 has 92 accuracy. That's only 3 less than a SR25 or something. A semi auto BARELY has a noticeable accuracy increase over those. If semis' accuracies were BUFFED to be on par with TPG-1 and the like, then saying semis for accuracy would be a valid statement.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by mrfarhan on Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:14 am

Semi-autos do have recoil.

shooting two shots into a still target might be easy but imagine the target is bunnyhopping. You can use a bolt-action and predict the player's movement and time your shot perfectly to hit the bunnyhopper but with a semi-auto, you would probably take more than 2 shots to kill that hopper.

Recoil after second shot is so.. Shocked
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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Hazarath on Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:15 am

That's another thing, the recoil that throws off the second shot ALSO throws off its higher accuracy that it has over bolt actions.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Gotron228 on Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:36 am

Hazarath wrote:I added a poll, vote guys!

And for those of you that say semi autos had an accuracy advantage over bolt actions since the beginning, I seriously refute that statement: M200 has 92 accuracy. That's only 3 less than a SR25 or something. A semi auto BARELY has a noticeable accuracy increase over those. If semis' accuracies were BUFFED to be on par with TPG-1 and the like, then saying semis for accuracy would be a valid statement.

I've always found that the Sr-25, although supposedly nerfed from when it was 100% Accuracy, actually can shoot further then the accuracy points intend for it. Although it turns it to a medium 3 hit kill rather then a 2 shot I can still use it effectively.

BUT What I do want to see in the future is a Semi Automatic with the same stats as the M110 SASS except for more portability and maybe more accuracy AND an L11 Zoom on the scope. This would really help out Semi Automatics when you are ACTUALLY using them for sniping rather then running around going rambo or pub-star.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Zirrick on Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:10 am

Hey, this is flawed. We shouldn't be nerfing either. We need to establish clear cut classes for all the SR's to follow. there should be this: CQC BA's, Pinpoint BA's, Hybrid BA's, CQC SA's, Pinpoint SA's, & Hybrid SA's. CQC should be L9/L11/M-200's & PSG-1/SR-25, Pinpoint should be M24/SPR's & M39/M110/MSG-90's, Hybrid BA's should be DSR-1/TPG-1's & M107/Dragonov's.
CQC BA's should be able to quickly kill, but have low-end accuracy.
CQC SA's should have have either close-range OHK medium vests or high RoF, both limited by low-end accuracy.
Pinpoint BA's should be able to true 100% accuracy, but are 2HK's to medium vests.
Pinpoint SA's should be able to have extremely close to 100% accuracy, with the ability to be a solid 2HK.
Hybrid BA's would be able to accurately 1HK, but will be subject to "dynamic" accuracy.
Hybrid SA's would be able to 1HK at long ranges, but are subject to low-end accuracy.

Btw, SA = Semi-automatic. BA = Bolt-action. If you already couldn't infer the meaning.


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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Hazarath on Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:46 am

Good standard, we should establish these for EVERY WEAPON CLASS. Surprised

Btw, your post seems to support buffing semis, since PSG-1 and SR25 do mediocre at close range compared to other CQC snipers like L9.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Zirrick on Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:43 am

Hazarath wrote:Good standard, we should establish these for EVERY WEAPON CLASS. Surprised

Btw, your post seems to support buffing semis, since PSG-1 and SR25 do mediocre at close range compared to other CQC snipers like L9.

Oh yes, it does buff it. Like I've said before. If everything is overpowered in a way, it will balance it self. Specialization would be great for all weapon classes, but in some cases (SG) it just wouldn't work out to the extent SR's would.

Btw, Haz. Are you manipulating me to come up with these answers? Exclamation

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Zirrick on Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:48 am

God I really hope they stop this stupid addiction with adding half-assed weapons to a game.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Hazarath on Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:41 pm

Zirrick wrote:

Btw, Haz. Are you manipulating me to come up with these answers? Exclamation

Waitwut? <.<

Explain how I'm... "manipulating" you.

If I am, I certainly am unaware of this :<

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Zirrick on Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:46 pm

Hazarath wrote:

Waitwut? <.<

Explain how I'm... "manipulating" you.

If I am, I certainly am unaware of this :<

Relax I'm joking, jesus >.<

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Hazarath on Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:43 pm

Zirrick wrote:
Hazarath wrote:

Waitwut? <.<

Explain how I'm... "manipulating" you.

If I am, I certainly am unaware of this :<

Relax I'm joking, jesus >.<

k. People on Nexon forums accuse me of things like that all the time. It's hard for me to not take these accusations seriously even if they were in good humor, because more than once, I've had people tell me the only reason why I started up FFCA was to enforce some kind of troll legion to shape and bend CA to how we want it to be, and not what the community wants. With me, insults are something I receive a minimum of 3 times a day.

I can never let my guard down around anyone or else they'll penetrate my outer core and try to destroy me, to kill my voice, to shoot down my efforts, my dreams, my aspirations. Every single person you see on the Nexon forums hating on FFCA are really trying to make me quit. Those who give constructive criticism yet still disagree with FFCA are members of the community that truly want the game to be better, and not just to gang up on a single hated member of the community like some cult. Some even go as far as wanting me dead in real life, like Riktoven.

Please understand that I can never joke around on any CA-related forum, or I'll be annihilated the moment I show a weakness. When I showed weakness around Abella by assuming I could get her banned repeatedly until she finally leaves, because I ASSUMED I had enough people supporting me on getting her banned, I got myself banned.

That is what happens whenever I show weakness. The CA forums is very much a battleground for me.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Zirrick on Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:24 am

Ok haz point taken, this is why I'm doing the representing for a bit.
to take heat and focus off of you.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by (MI6) lolpierandom on Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:44 am

Hey, don't forget me Zirrick Sad

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Hazarath on Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:13 pm

You haven't been active lately, lolpie, what happened? Gotron will be assisting you guys as well.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by (MI6) lolpierandom on Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:15 pm

I been lurking Haz, as always. Not much activity recently.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Hazarath on Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:38 pm

D:

There was a LOT going on yesterday.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Zirrick on Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:08 am

It seems everyone is against the new fireteam becoming harder. Really I just want them to add a EXP/GP increase with this difficulty. Because so far this is no reason for people to play a harder fireteam that gets people killed more often. I just really think that this would be a great time to suggest a beta testing server for the updates. Similar to what the CA-EU forums have been asking for.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Hazarath on Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:08 pm

A beta testing server? Perhaps reserved for officers or something, so that no one will hack, etc.?

Sounds great.

If we had an "ingame features" suggestion forum, I'd encourage you to post that there, but it seems we don't have one..

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Zirrick on Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:53 pm

Well honestly I think they should limit it to the people that are constantly in the forums/ higher ranks.
That way we'd have less fiascos like the black lung fireteam/TPG.
We all know if any of us had the ability to put information about the TPG, it'd never exist in the form it does today. The black lung fiasco is basically a fireteam that was a cake walk at first, then raging hell later. Now the difficulty it possesses doesn't even justify playing it.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Hazarath on Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:11 pm

Indeed.

Do me a favor? PM slayer to add an in game features subforum, and then post your suggestion there Razz

Of course, in game features is kind of at the bottom of our agenda, so sorry :X

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Jiggs09 on Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:14 am

I think that People should QQ about Semi's they are 2 shot kill with wierd recoil and somewhat decent accuracy, I would rather shoot my anaconda silver8-inch across the map than a semi because these OHKo snipers have perfect accuracy like perfect damage its just none comparable.
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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

Post by Zirrick on Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:51 am

ahhh no worries haz. We've got better things todo.

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Re: Are semi automatics underpowered or are bolt actions outclassing semi autos because bolts are slightly OP?

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